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Author Topic:   Kill that desperation!
Ko-B

Master Don Juan
posted 03-08-2001 04:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ko-B     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Holy sh*t!!!!!

The best thread I've ever read...this one is DEFINITELY going to my hall of fame...

IP: 202.137.2.145

Ko-B

Master Don Juan
posted 03-08-2001 04:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ko-B     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And yeah, Intermediate DON Juaner, can you please post those threads too?

IP: 202.137.2.145

syncmaster

Moderator
posted 03-08-2001 08:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for syncmaster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
God YES postem postem postem...

------------------
Thanks.
syncmaster

IP: 24.156.235.179

XANEUS

Master Don Juan
posted 03-08-2001 09:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for XANEUS     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hell yes! I'd love to see these articles.

IP: 131.194.73.1

stockholder

Master Don Juan
posted 03-13-2001 09:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for stockholder     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pook women are afraid, I think, to approach me.I have used The Prince Charming method many times.I am using something identical for like six years now and I don't know, I guess I'm a big loser, but I still have no results.I think it's like a disease now: even if I want to show I'm interested in the female I can't.I am suffering from my own succes.I'm like a homosexual man.I still am heterosexual though.I'm not expecting an answer but I want to show you that there is an extreme form to this.So be careful guys.

It's been a while since you've written the article but what do you mean with the "when a girl offers me a drink" part?Should we just say "No!"

IP: 131.155.33.52

HB_Hunter

Master Don Juan
posted 03-26-2001 06:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for HB_Hunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
how to change your mind states.. i mean what do u do to creep the negative thoughts off??
how to re-activate ur mind again...
i really feel bad cz i've chitchatted with lots of gals the day before yes in a great way n suddnely i do think that i can't chitchatt with any gal ,that all the info r erased from ma mind etc.. what shall i do??
cz i know it's just a state of mind...
ps i don't want the bad outcome plz

IP: 212.12.225.164

ChrisFl

Master Don Juan
posted 03-27-2001 05:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ChrisFl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
> And yeah, Intermediate DON Juaner, can you please post those threads too?

Whatever happened to that idea?

IP: 208.248.162.195

Pook

Master Don Juan
posted 03-27-2001 11:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pook     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What is this thread still doing here!?

Well, since its up, might as well add to it!

What stockholder says will be in italics, what the Pook Man says will be in bold; this is all for your reading pleasure and paid by support from viewers like you.

Pook women are afraid, I think, to approach me. (Why do you think women will ever approach a MAN!? Women don't approach! Men approach!) I have used The Prince Charming method many times.I am using something identical for like six years now and I don't know, I guess I'm a big loser, (If you think you are, then you become it.) but I still have no results.I think it's like a disease now: even if I want to show I'm interested in the female I can't. (Why not!? Prince Charming isn't afraid to show interest in a female.) I am suffering from my own succes.

Women are social animals, much more so then men. Do you have a large group of friends and associates? Do you have 'social outings' usually?

There's a fine line between SHOWING your interest and TELLING her your interest. TELL her, such as in a poem, "How I love thee! Let me count the ways..." and, as we all know, women will run to the hills! But if you SHOW your interest, such as talking and asking for her phone number, asking her out, you'll get ahead.

But you've gotta cast those social webs. Look at players! The instant a girl of liking comes into their site, they're off to her in three seconds chatting her up, trying to entertain her. (There's a difference between 'hitting on' and talking. Don't 'hit', girls will smell the agenda. Just be fun.) Go to clubs. Go to dances. Go to organizations. The Prince Charming is good for keeping interest and not letting yourself be walked over, but you've got to start contact somehow. Usually once you have a girlfriend, the snowball begins to become an avalanche, and (I think guys here have noticed) once you have a girlfriend ALL the other girls become much more interested IN YOU.

That's my take on it. Are you utilizing yourself as you should? OR are you waiting for girls to realize how great you are and to come to you already?

Think of a salesman. First, he makes friendly contact. Then, he goes for the sale. Finally, he does the 'take it or leave it' type price, full of confidence (this is why there are no 'nice' salesmen). You've got to make the friendly contact and go for the sale, else the third part won't mean anything.

What would happen if the salesman just sat there thinking, "My product is GREAT! They will come TO ME!" That salesman would be all alone! You must sample your product; how else do you expect women to know your great?

It seems like most guys are caught in two types, those who are awesome in relationships but bad at catching girls, and those who are good at catching girls but horrible at relationships. It sounds like you're in the first group (its much harder for the second group to go to the first group then vice versa. You're in luck.).

-------------------
Behind all the talk, what is the essence of the 'nice guy'? It is a guy who wishes he was a girl.

Seriously! I hear nice guys say all the time, "Why do I have to ask her out? Why can't she ask me out?" Because YOU are the MAN. And the MAN is to take initiative.

Women want a MAN, not a girly guy. Quit being passive and seize the day. Nice guys need to utilize themselves and spread their mack down.

How do you do this?

It's not going to happen in a day so please don't get disapointed with early failures. It will happen in time.

-Quit being so sensitive! (Being AWARE is good, such as aware of your girlfriend's feelings, but don't be so sensitive. There is a time to be sweet and buttery with your feelings, but she must bring it out. Don't vomit your emotions on her; it's gross! Show, don't tell your feelings except on rare occasions.)

-Expect success! (Nice guys are often pessimistic and their failures are mostly a result of self-fullfilling prophecy. Some guys, which I confess I am one, actually fear success. We think, "If I ask her out and she says yes, THEN what?" Since we don't want or fear Step 5, we opt out on Step 1 and create our own failures for us. Stop it!)

-Acknoledge your sexuality! (How would you feel taking off your shirt surrounded by beautiful women? Not comfortable? WHY!? You say, "But Pook, she will see my scrawny body with my scrawny chicken thin arms and my bony ribs!" Eww! Put some muscle on and make yourself physically fit to go shirtless around women. If you're not comfortable about your body, why the heck would a woman desire it or you?

How would you feel being trapped with several women that you HAD to talk to for several hours? Would you be comfortable? If not, WHY? You need to get some personality, for that is what women want even more then a hard body! A fool talks about other people, a nice guy stays quiet and girly, a jerk talks about himself, but a Don Juan talks about HER. Make her the object of the conversation and she'll love it because you are discussing the most important subject in the universe: HER!

If you're not comfortable in either of these situations, you need to self actualize yourself a bit more. Remember that confidence is not a guy thinking, "Confidence!" in his head, it is simply feeling GREAT about life and COMFORTABLE in what you do. The word confidence does not even spring into your mind. Love life and life will love you.)

I was a nice guy. I'm sure most of us were nice guys at some point in our lives. Unfortunately, no one taught us that being a nice guy was bad, we simply realized this when all the jerks had chicks when we could hug only air.

So what's the process of growing out of a nice guy?

Nice Guyius Maximus Wishes he was a girl, that girls would ask him out. Will not confront. Extremely sensative, extremely emotional, easily infatuated. Wants to marry the girl after the first date.

Bitter Guy Realization of the nice guy being last but still unable to fully embrace reality. This guy is realizing that what he thought was never reality and will never be reality. Bitter guy ends when he understands that it is time to act like a MAN then a girly boy.

Decent Guy Still not able to utilize himself fully, still unable to fully propel his personality. Yet, he is now able to control his feelings. He stops getting easily infatuated, he stops telling the girl how his feelings. He understands the Romance Game now, and is observing everything so he can jump in and play too. It's only a matter of time before he becomes...

Neat Guy He has become comfortable with women, with even approaching women some of the time. Yet, still, he doesn't have that charm, that knack. If he keeps trying (i.e. getting rejected) he will eventually become...

Good Guy Yes! This is what the girls are looking for. Men make towers, women cast webs. While men are stimulated through our eyes (such as in, "Mmmm... Hot chick!"), women are stimulated through their ears, through social contact ("He is so cool, fun, and smart!"). Good guys charm naturally; it requires no effort.

--Unfortunately, many former nice-guys don't get past their insecurity. They realize the methods but not the inner core. They begin to swing to the opposite extreme...--

Jerk Cares about only one thing... His charm has deteriorated due to him taking things for granted (his looks, his confidence, all pulling in chicks).

The Player Everything revolves around sex. The Player will do everything possible to obtain it short of force, from mind games, to hypnosis, all his intellect goes into the task of getting girls. You might ask, "What is wrong with this?" All their time and energy could have gone into their talents and skills so that they could fulfill their potential in life. My term for the player is 'pu$$y-whipped'. The player must have many women because he is afraid he cannot be loved by one.

It's all in your mind, every bit. Change the way you think, and the world will seemingly change around you, for as you think you shall become!

(Done ranting.)

------------------
Pook
"As you think, you shall become."
"Men will be nice when nice guys get laid."

IP: 158.135.1.100

HB_Hunter

Master Don Juan
posted 03-28-2001 06:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for HB_Hunter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i think im lucky then to bring this thread again.ur reply pook was adorable i really like ur way but i still have 2 things to say:

1-i thought it was all states of mind..
is confidence really not one of those??
2- how to change the way u think if it's negative....

IP: 163.121.142.11

krd

Master Don Juan
posted 03-28-2001 09:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for krd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think I am somewhere in between "Decent guy" and "Neat guy." I do approach women and talk to them, but I still feel like it requires a lot of effort and energy on my part. It's something that just doesn't come naturally for me. I discovered this site approximately seven months ago and come to it so often that I've acquired the title of "Master Don Juan". But I feel like I should really be further along than I am at this point. Do you agree?

I've said before that I aspire to be a player, but after reading your definition, I realize that this is not necesssarily a positive thing. I'm really not looking for sex right now, I just want to go out and have a good time with a girl. Your thread brings up a good point that there is a major difference between a "nice guy" and a "good guy". And maybe it's possible than even though girls prefer a jerk to a nice guy, they'd still rather be with a good guy. That's an interesting distinction. I think instead of the title "Master Don Juan" under my name, it should say "Aspiring Good Guy". That would definitely be more accurate!

IP: 24.91.166.42

Pook

Master Don Juan
posted 03-29-2001 12:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pook     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi HB_Hunter!

I think we place WAY too much emphasis on confidence. C'mon, do we REALLY think that a chick goes, "Wow! He is CONFIDENT! This means I dump my boyfriend and do everything he asks!" Hah!

Rather then thinking 'confidence' think "Loving Life!" Quit walking on eggshells! Stop being shy! "But Pook, the girls scare me." Oh, you girly man! What do you have to be scared from HER? What, you think she's going to rape you or something? "But Pook, she might... REJECT... me!" Why should you worry about that? Just go to the next girl! (Be glad you are the MAN. You can go from girl to girl, get rejected over and over again. However, the girl must sit on the log and wait and wait and wait for Mr. Right to pop up.)

One thing I noticed when I was purging all the Nice Guyius from my system was that I thought way too much. It's like you meet the chick, the chick seems to like you, and you go, "Imagine what wonderful children we'd have! I think I'll name my first son after Pook!!!" This is thinking WAY too much, rather then going with the flow and having fun. Now I stopped thinking how people percieve me and just decided to have fun. They like this. They love this. Why? I'm letting my natural self come out. No mental games, no thinking "Omigoodness, how did the 'blow job' parretn go again!?" And guess what! If she does like me, she likes me for me, not for my pattern or for my 'neg hit'. This is true satisfaction.

Confidence is definetely a state of mind, but quit thinking confidence as some cosmic holy grail of the Don Juan quest. Just focus on feeling great, having fun, and (all) people will want to be with you, especially the girls. After all, girls just want to have fun. If you're not fun, why would she want to be with you?

Note: EVERY SINGLE girl I ask, in what they are looking for in a guy, are two things, SMART and FUN. You're smart already because you're at this webpage. Now just be fun! You can't 'work' at this, you just have to feel comfortable. You could look like a gargoyle but if you're fun and smart, she will go for you.

How do you change your negative mind? Simple! Just place $20 in an envelope and mail it to Pook Place, 1010101 Pookster Drive. If that doesn't work, take Anti-Dump's advice and give up girls for a month and immerse yourself in a hobby or whatever makes you happy. (The purpose is not getting you a chick. The purpose is getting you happy. Happiness is the most attractive quality a guy can have.)

Ever notice that chicks come on to you when chicks are the furthest thing from your mind? It's as if they can tell, that females have some telepathic link they can do (and will never tell us about). They don't want guys on the prowl (why shy/insecure and hitting doesn't exactly work). Talk to her and think ANYTHING but sex for if you think of sex, her telapathic radar will go off and you'll be stuck on this forum again talking to Pook in the Tips section rather then having fun with her.

Krd said, I think I am somewhere in between "Decent guy" and "Neat guy." I do approach women and talk to them, but I still feel like it requires a lot of effort and energy on my part. It's something that just doesn't come naturally for me. I discovered this site approximately seven months ago and come to it so often that I've acquired the title of "Master Don Juan". But I feel like I should really be further along than I am at this point. Do you agree?

I think you're doing fine already! Remember, most males go through THEIR ENTIRE LIVES as nice guys. Women want nice guys... when they hit their 30s and want to 'settle down'. You're already changing the way you think and your life will change because of it. There's no way you're going to be a Master Don Juan in 7 months. Notice the changes already and keep pushing your limits. (You're approaching girls! A nice guy would never do this... The nice guy would go, "I want HER to pick ME up." Notice how pathetic that seems now?)

Chicks WANT you to approach them. Do I mean approaching them with huge eyes, your tongue hanging out slobbering, and your face all pale? NO! Girls can sense your desire. Go desireless! Just chat and have fun with ALL girls like everyone else. If you're interested in one, then show it (Lord forbid, don't ever tell it. Show, don't tell).

If you want to be a player, then go for it. Don't let Pook stand in your way. It's just that I see the players as just as insecure as the nice guys, with the exception that they are getting laid. It's fun to go on pickupguide.com and read all these posts analyzing everything about female behavior, all the mental games, all the patterns, all the hypnosis, etc. After thinking, "Geez, get a life!" I realize these are smart people. Imagine if they invested their time in their skills and talents rather then wasting it constantly chasing girls. They would fulfill their potential and (I believe) be much happier in life.

If you want to be a nice guy or a player, go for it. But I think you'd be much happier being the Good Guy. The lay guides usually don't mention how many times the guy initially gets blown off, but why have dozens of insecure girls when you can have a secure and accomplished WOMAN?

Now its time for me to go and and find Pook chick. (I wonder what'd happen if I called her that, hehe)
http://www.askmen.com/dating/heidi/37_dating_girl.html <---------- READ THIS NOW

------------------
Pook
"As you think, you shall become."
"Men will be nice when nice guys get laid."

IP: 158.135.1.100

IntermediateDonJuaner

Master Don Juan
posted 03-29-2001 09:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for IntermediateDonJuaner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Now wait a min.I couldn't agree hundred percent with what Pook just said.Correct,what he said mostly are true.However,he denies that we MALES could be pickedup by women.I can see that there are ways for men to be picked up by women.


And I don't think nice guys are the people who dream of being picked up.I think everyone wishes to be approached and we could sit down and relax while women do the job.That's not impossible.It's possible here.
For examples in bars,Looks are very important and without good looks,you can say bye bye.However,if you have a unique method to go after women,they are willing to settle for an unusual guy.


Don't believe me,go to my post article "Technique to get women in bars" Guranteed without rejection.As ChrisF1 said,he was asking me to post one of Wayne Ross's method.So I posted one of his articles with his authority.Believe me,he has guaranteed me that his methods and techniques are powerful that when you used it,women will picked you up.

Go and have a look.It works like hell.And pls don't scoff at the simplicity of his method.If you have any doubts or feel that his method is lame,pls tell me in my post section.I will not reply to any other users comments on this post anymore other than my own thread.Thank You!

IP: 161.142.100.85

RKusanagi

Don Juan
posted 04-11-2001 05:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RKusanagi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It would be cool if you posted the articles here man, i'm sure it would help...

Osaki ni!

IP: 194.65.14.67

IntermediateDonJuaner

Master Don Juan
posted 04-11-2001 10:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for IntermediateDonJuaner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Pook,I've got a question here.Just ignore my last post on your thread.About what other Don Juaners had said,'hitting' is not good as we showed up as desperate but if we don't act,we just look like a nice guy which means low confidence.

So,tell me,if you are in bars and you feel like going up to that lady and start a conversation,how would you handle the situation?If you go up and hit on her,bad sign.If you wait for her to come,that equals to Mr nice guy.How would you handle such a situation?

I got one more question.You said think of ourselves as Prince charming.Fine.However,let us say that we were once a nice guy ,what can we do to change how women see us?Let me make it more specific.For example:
"A thief that has been caught by the police will always have the bad reputation for committing that crime".Even if he has changed to become someone better and promise that he will not be a thief again,others will not accept him as they will only think that he's a thief just because he was once a thief.


The same goes for women.If we were once a nice guy,the next time they see us,they will also think that we're nice guy.So what can be done to make them change their opinion about us if they had seen us as a nice guy before.?Even if we think that we're the Great Catch,to them we're not because they think we're nice guys.So how can we show others that we're Prince Charming in this case?


Pls help.Thank You!

IP: 161.142.100.85

Pook

Master Don Juan
posted 04-15-2001 01:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pook     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Intermediate Donjuaner!

I agree with your earlier post. Women CAN pick you up (though I'd be a bit suspicious when they do). I just don't think ANY MAN should COUNT on being picked up.

The Nice Guy sits there thinking, "Please pick me up. Please pick me up. Please pick me up." No guy should COUNT on women picking him up. He must seize the day.

quote:
About what other Don Juaners had said,'hitting' is not good as we showed up as desperate but if we don't act,we just look like a nice guy which means low confidence.

Confidence! It has become that holy grail of the Don Juan quest. It is as if all Don Juan advice is given in two words, "Be Confident!" but it's not like a light switch you can simply turn on.

I've noticed about myself (and others) is that you're only truly confident when the word confidence never pops into your mind. Confidence is a state of mind, more of a comfortableness of who you are and where you are going in life.

Try going anywhere and say to yourself, "I feel happy today!" Does that instantly make you happy? Of course not. Why? Because happiness is a mindset. It's not a lightswitch you can turn on.

The same is so with confidence: "I feel confident today!" *Poof* (Pook then obtains superhuman abilities and approaches every chick he sees.)

And of course that doesn't happen. Confidence, like happiness, is a mindset. (Notice how suave guys and nice guys think different. It's all in the mind.)

(And you could say there is a difference between confidence and situational confidence. Situational confidence, I'd say, is more of getting over your shyness (i.e. fear of failing) and seize action.)

Although I'm sure many here have a different definition of hitting but I define it as coming on to a woman with blatant sexual interest.

This turns women off!

Women think (and are correct) that guys want only one thing. A woman wants to be cherished.

After all, us guys want the same. Imagine how you'd feel if women hitted on you... for sex? No, for money. You would rightly say, "Hey! Is that all you can think about, money?" It would turn you off because the person is not interested in you for you. The same applies with 'hitting on' women (women may love it because it shows they're desired, but it grows old for them fast).

Ever heard the advice of complimenting a women (of her choices like her clothes, decisions, skills, hair, etc.) but not her body? You don't go around showing your sexual interest.

Have you noticed how women act when they approach you? They ask about you, they talk to you about anything, but they dare not show their interest. They sneakily skip around it. We need to do the same.

Women, amazingly, are extremely good at detecting your interest, sexual or otherwise. If you come to them, drooling and with hungry eyes, they will know it even if you are pulling off every suave maneuver and following the Lay Guide completely.

The solution? Kill your interest, and with it desperation.

Don't just stand there and ogle, of course. Just be fun. Go in and chat but purge the interest from your mind. Trust me, you'll be much more attractive when you do (Think back to the times when women came on to you. It was always when women were the last thing on your mind.)

quote:

So,tell me,if you are in bars and you feel like going up to that lady and start a conversation,how would you handle the situation?If you go up and hit on her,bad sign.If you wait for her to come,that equals to Mr nice guy.How would you handle such a situation?

Well, bars aren't my typical thing. But its a different environment and girls go there to be hit on, so you might as well go with it. I just don't think hitting on girls (showing sexual interest) will get you that far in usual situations.

I had a friend who read this thread before he went out with several of his friends just recently. They all met this fabulous girl. Of course, his friends were practically drooling all over her, hitting on her, alluding to sex, etc. He on the other hand went in completely desireless, just had as much fun as he could with her.

Who do you think she wanted to sleep with at the end of the night?

Good guess.

IP: 209.223.62.48

IQ

Don Juan
posted 04-29-2001 05:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for IQ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi,

I have a question for pook. Like you said, you talk to a girl about yourself, but if you take quite long to ask her out she might think you are not interested in her romantically. So, should you show sexual interest, teasing etc. during your convo with her.

Also, by seeing you everyday, she will gradually know about you, even you dont tell her anything, she can ask your friends, or she can find out your tastes, like how you dress or what you like, so where is the mystery or suspense which keeps them interested like who is this person, or whether or not she is gonna see you again or not.

How do you keep them romantically interested in you without asking them out soon such as in work place or school. You said you should hint on excellence but would that make them interested in you romantically, I mean wouldn't you just become their friends.

I think to avoid being friends you should treat them like strangers but how to keep their romantic interest in you.

I read AD's post in which he wrote that you should ask the number in first one or two meeting, otherwise by seeing you every day she might decide that she doesnt like you. She might give you the number as a friend if you ask later on but not as a romantic interest.

Please, clarify this confusion.

IQ.

IP: 206.172.121.33

Pook

Master Don Juan
posted 05-03-2001 12:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pook     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi IQ!

quote:
Like you said, you talk to a girl about yourself, but if you take quite long to ask her out she might think you are not interested in her romantically. So, should you show sexual interest, teasing etc. during your convo with her.

This thread is old and some of my ideas have been ironed out.

What keeps a women (for the first few months)? As Anti-Dump would say, it is strength. Desire is a form of weakness.

Desire! It is the ultimate obstacle on the path to Don Juanville.

I've been on this forum, and others like you (as you probably have) have seen the following constantly:

"I told her I LOVED her. Why is she so suddenly distant?"
"It was our first date. I showed up with flowers and she seemed annoyed. Why?"
"I treat her like a GODDESS! Why did she dump me?"
"I got her number, and I called her up and talked to her for over an hour! Then she said no to my date. Why!?"
"I told her life story. I thought that would bring us closer. Why is it repelling her!?"
"She rarely has sex with me. What is wrong?"
"She said, 'Let's Just Be Friends'. What does THAT mean?"

Like an endless cycle, we see the same problems over and over just in different forms.

"I called her ten times this week and she said no to my date idea!"
"I bought her gifts but she then rejected me!"
"She keeps canceling dates!"

Indeed, such problems are endless. So many of us end up making sure we 'call 5 days or more once we have the number' or 'make sure the phone call is 5 minutes or less' or 'never GIVE information out yourself'. This isn't confidence. It is calculation.

Unfortunately, we can obtain every trick and tactic, from the lay guides to the articles on this site. It is a script and might add to your confidence. But as soon as something occurs that goes off script, you're screwed.

Then we hear:

"She is flirting with her EX. What do I do!?"
"How do I approach when she has friends around her?"
"Help! She says she's moving. What should I say to her?"

Now, if you are in the right mindset all of this vanishes. From beginning to end, you'll have basically no typical problems with women.

Behold:

Nice Guy approaches a girl and goes,

"How are you today! Will you go out with me?"

Pook then approaches the girl,

"Fahita-chingy-changa!"

Naturally, Pook gets the girl (and because its my post ) The point is that you can do it WRONG, totally unscripted, and pull it off if you have that confidence thing down, if you have the mindset that YOU are the goods, the prize, the trophy and she is a potential winner IF she plays her cards right.

A perfectly executed approach with no confidence is WORSE then a screwed up spontaneous approach bubbling with confidence. Why? Because you're in the right mindset.

Desperation comes at anytime, especially at the beginning of relationships. I know you're thinking I'm off on a rant again, so I'll be brief.

Whenever you're with her, kill your desire. You may think you've found THE ONE but within the first month you blurt out to her, "I LOVE YOU" she will freeze and things will become shaky. You have that urge but it must be silenced. It turns girls off.

Show your playful fun side. This will attract and keep them.

So teasing is good, as with any playful behavior. I'd hold off anything that alludes to sex early on since women can sniff out the agenda.

You show you WANT her but don't NEED her.

How do you show your want? By asking her out. By showing interest in HER (not her body, that would be blatant desire).

There is a difference between flirting and 'hitting'. 'Hitting' is when you go:

"My, what lovely hair you have."
"You're so smart."
"You are so cute."
*You stare at anything but her eyes and face*


Women can smell the agenda and they don't like it. It turns them off.

I've found when I was most attractive, when girls would approach ME, was when I was apathetic. Now I'm not saying to wait for women to approach you, its just showing that you are most attractive when you aren't desiring. Because confident guys don't desire!

Think about it. All the mistakes we make are basically due to desire. We say before her, "I love you." Desire. We call her 10 times every day. Desire. We talk about how fast our cars go and how great we are to prove ourselves. Desire. We get insecure around her. Desire. We get tongue tied around beautiful women. Desire.

The way how I killed my nice guyness and desperation was to stop NEEDING them, to stop DESIRING them.*Poof* All of a sudden I could flirt and talk up ANY girl and keep a strong relationship.

Show that you WANT her but not that you NEED her. You WANT her because you are asking her out. You WANT her because you are being super-friendly to her. You NEED her when you follow her around like a puppy dog. You NEED her when you start shoveling your emotions at her (why would someone try to force intimacy? Because of neediness).

This is why persistance works with women. It shows you want her. But if you show you NEED her, then its just desperation. The only way I've found to stop it (you can momentarily turn it off, but it keeps on coming back again and again unless you change your mindset) is to think that you are Prince Charming, that you are the Great Catch. That she must CATCH YOU and she must play HER cards right. Thus, you start to act like it and become it. You have a passion for something that goes BEYOND women.

This attitude isn't just for asking out a girl, its all throughout. It'll keep you from becoming needy and fouling up.

quote:
Also, by seeing you everyday, she will gradually know about you, even you dont tell her anything, she can ask your friends, or she can find out your tastes, like how you dress or what you like, so where is the mystery or suspense which keeps them interested like who is this person, or whether or not she is gonna see you again or not.

Obviously, you're not going to keep the mystery for long. If you like her, ask her out. Don't wait.

quote:
How do you keep them romantically interested in you without asking them out soon such as in work place or school. You said you should hint on excellence but would that make them interested in you romantically, I mean wouldn't you just become their friends.

When that happens, I remember to myself that whenever I am at work, I am on stage. In other words, don't go around blurting everything about your day, your life, etc. to her. Just as on a date, you'd be aware about what you say about yourself. I've always found talking about her and what she's doing to be the most effective (with adding in a little bit about yourself, Conversing for Maximum Attraction is the best article IMO at sosuave.com. Most guys won't talk like this. And you know what, most never will!).

quote:
I read AD's post in which he wrote that you should ask the number in first one or two meeting, otherwise by seeing you every day she might decide that she doesnt like you. She might give you the number as a friend if you ask later on but not as a romantic interest.

Maybe. But once you've gotten to know her, you can see if she's the type YOU want to go out with or not. Don't look at work as a problem, see it as an opportunity to get to know her (if you don't go for her soon). Quit thinking about what SHE thinks. WHO CARES WHAT SHE THINKS!? Do you want her? Do you think she is good for you? Do you want to spend your time and money on her? You said you're worried that she might get to know you and not like you. But at the same time, you get to know her and see if you want to go out with her! It works both ways.

I used to be a nice shy guy who flowered the walls and only looked about with envirous eyes. I found this site and other sites and tried different things. ("OK, Pook. Rememeber to be a challenge. The article on Sosuave.com said so!" "Now, now Pook, Anti-Dump said to wait 5 days before calling." "Look Pook! She is eating a banana. Engage blow-job pattern!") This was leading me in circles. I got further then before but something still seemed very wrong. So I said to hell with it and operated on my gut. I call anywhere from 1 day to over a week. I base it totally on how I feel and I'm successful anyway. (Why? Because I'm not walking on eggshells of calculations.)

People who have known me have seen the massive change that took place within 6-9 months. I went from a shy nice kid who never said anything to a mack attack, from pessimistic to neutral to overflowing enthusiasm, from insecurity to brimming confidence.

I was chatting with these girls I just met with a friend (he has known these girls). When I was leaving and walking away, I heard one of the girls squeal, "Yes! FINALLY! A guy that gives EYE CONTACT!" The friend, being a Nice Guy, is puzzled and says, "Eye contact? Is that good?" which he got the resounding answer: "YES!"

The point is that if I went in there and said in my mind, "Pook, look at their eyes. Pook, look at their eyes. Pook, look at their eyes. The Don Juan Tip of the Day said so!" I look at their eyes but it would not remain constant. My script would break. (and before it always did) But now that I don't have a twinge of DESIRE within me, that I don't rely on calculation anymore but natural joy, I do things like eye contact naturally (and yes, I found out later, two of them are crushing on me already). This is because a Don Juan is not a sum of tricks and tactics, a Don Juan is a way of thought. Women can sniff out the former but with the latter they will be clawing their way for you! Your tortured past is now but a dream, the future your vision, and as you envision you shall become. The enemy is not your competition. The enemy is not women. The enemy is YOURSELF! Your mindset is the enemy. Kill it. Change the way you think. And you'll never think of the word 'confidence' again.

------------------
Pook
"As you think, you shall become."
"Men will be nice when nice guys get laid."

IP: 158.135.1.100

IQ

Don Juan
posted 05-03-2001 06:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for IQ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Pook,

This super-confident guy approach seems to be a real good approach for introvert people.
You dont need women, they need you. And the best way to show you want them is to ask them out soon. If you dont ask them out soon, she might think that you are just friends, or may be you are not attracted to her, or worse you are gay. Again, we should not think about what she would think, but it would not be a good thing, either if they percieve us as asexual person.

Also, most of the guys have problem having the playful fun attitude. Exactly what kind of attitude should a guy have, and what is your definition of flirting with girls, how should the guy flirt without hitting and showing his desire. And also, how one can become that smooth talker that they desire to be with. Being funny can be a good way too.

We need Pook input on these confusions.

IQ.

IP: 206.172.121.122

ChrisFl

Master Don Juan
posted 05-06-2001 11:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ChrisFl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have the same questions as IQ. I thought flirting was sort of showing desire.

IP: 24.164.41.201

XCMan

Master Don Juan
posted 05-06-2001 10:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for XCMan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey man, nice posts and such. Just had one more question, and its one that was asked before, but you didnt answer it fully (IMO). Let's say you've changed (or are changing) and decide to go after some girl that knew you in the niceguy stage for the hell of it. Do you have any general strateegery tips?

later.

------------------
"I must not fear. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration..." Dune

IP: 131.151.185.5

Pook

Master Don Juan
posted 05-12-2001 11:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pook     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi IQ!

quote:
Also, most of the guys have problem having the playful fun attitude.

So do I. What is important is that you are comfortable in your surroundings and who you're with. Keep the conversation going and make the conversation EASY and FUN. I'm not that good with the horseplay but I keep the conversation fun and interesting. Most guys can't do even that. How do I keep the conversation fun and intersting. By talking about HER (Conversing for Maximum Attraction is the best article on the Don Juan Center IMO) and about things I care about. Girls are smarter then we give them credit for in social interactions and they KNOW when you are up to something. So be real. Don't try calculated nonsense on her.

quote:
Exactly what kind of attitude should a guy have, and what is your definition of flirting with girls, how should the guy flirt without hitting and showing his desire. And also, how one can become that smooth talker that they desire to be with. Being funny can be a good way too.

There is a girl (one of them) that I'm interested in. At first I thought I lost it because I wasn't up to par in my character (it was a day when I was tired, angry, and had a headache). I made sure I got my sleep and made myself happy (hobbies!) so I was in a much 'springier' type of mood next time.

This girl is everything I'm looking for: hot, intelligent, fun, funny, emotionally stable (rare in chicks). There is a flaw but it is only one: she has a boyfriend. But this doesn't stop Pook from trying.

We talked about evertyhing. She jumped from subject to subject. It was fun.

One part was:

(After she told me some bad things about her boyfriend (which was what I was aiming for) she says

"I don't want to be liked just for my looks. I want someone who likes me for me."

Pook translates

"Gentlemen, she is a 10 on the Don Juan Scale of Chick Genetic Perfection. If you're after a hottie who is SMART and COOl then you can't just go vomiting your desire at her. She will be VERY picky and wants her MIND stimulated so ALL the guys coming up to her won't."

"But Pook, but Pook! Isn't flirting showing interest?"

Flirting is SUBTLE. Let me repeat, flirting is SUBTLE. If your attraction is obvious, it isn't flirting. It's desperation or hitting or picking up, etc. Look, if you like a girl you will be flirting without even knowing it. You'll be more playful. You'll have more eyecontact. You'll be more laughing. Women, for all their faults, are EXCELLENT in reading social situations and will pick up on your interest.

I don't know how much interest I 'leaked' out but when I left her, I stole a peek of her across my shoulder. She was watching me leaving and SAW ME STEAL THAT LOOK. She will now be thinking, "Hey, there is something going on here." Yet, she won't be sure. "Does he like me? He may not. I am just imagining things." She'll go back and forth wondering, this is the drama she loves. The more she thinks about it, the more she'll become interested.

Rules of Pookerizing!

1. Don't bore women.
2. Don't rely on calculation, rely on natural joy. (Happy guys are confident. Happy guys smile. Happy guys get ATTENTION because optimism and happiness is a rare characteristic that everyone else wants to be around. Happiness is a huge turn on for anybody so work on your own happiness should be priority.)
3. Be prepared. (get enough rest. look your best. keep yourself happy.)
4. Don't take it seriously. (Don't look at her as your soon-to-be wife. This leads to desperation)
5. Rejection is a WIN because a) she shows up front she's not interested. b) she is saving you time, money, and your sanity since now the matter is closed.

All thoughts of 'this is the One!' are roads that lead to desperation. Your destiny is in how you think for as you think you shall become.

------------------
Pook
"As you think, you shall become."
"Men will be nice when nice guys get laid."

[This message has been edited by Pook (edited 05-13-2001).]

IP: 209.176.38.81

Blue_paul

Don Juan
posted 05-13-2001 05:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blue_paul     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you like a girl, you don't have to wait for signals for her to approach. Approach anyway! Just do it in a 'fun' way, not like a wolf that is on the prowl.

Can you give some examples of what you mean by "doing it in a fun way"?

IP: 216.151.66.63

IQ

Don Juan
posted 05-13-2001 08:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for IQ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have read the article on conversing for maximum attraction. I don't agree with saying too much me too. I think you should have a strong individuality and no two person agree on everything and are totally similar. So, saying me too sometimes is a good thing, otherwise she may start liking you as a friend as you too have same tastes, interests etc. Also, saying too much me too will also kill the mystery as she will know about your personality.

There is a problem here. If a women dont like you she wont give you information to build the conversation upon. But if she just like you as a friend, she may use the conversation to get the attention or to kill her loneliness etc. So, you may get used by her as an attention-giver, she may also go out with you to get that attention, or she may give excuses when you ask her out but keep talking to you. In the first case, trying to kiss her on first one or two dates should tell you that if she is really interested and in the second case you should drop her as she is just using you, also you should get rid of her as a friend as well.

This article presupposes that women who gives you information is attracted to you. It might not be the case in the case of lonely or user women. But talking to her about herself while keeping mystery is a very good way to get her more attracted in the case she is already physically attracted to you.

Modern physcology says that a women decided in the first glance if she is attracted to you and then she takes only five minutes for the type test to know if you could be her type. So, we should try to ask her out as soon as we get comfortable with her so as we dont waste our time on uninterested or just friendly women.

There is also a problem. You might also suffocate her by throwing too much attention on her, so be ready to cut the convo if she shows any signs of boredom. I think being funny helps alot but not all the time, you can use humour when you feel its alright to use it.

Also, throwing too much attention while talking all the time about her, may also spoil her and she may lose interest in you and start seeing you as a friend. So, throw as much attention as you think is appropriate and then cut off the convo.
Its a good idea to talk about general topic, fun things to do etc. to show that you have ambitions, hobbies, and life outside of her and you may have other women in your life.

In this way, she will never think of using you for attention, she will know that you will dump her, and attracted women will remain interested.

I agree with the subtle flirting thing, but we should also ask questions about something related to her physical, like about her excercise, dance, her accessories, and throw our charm too. Try to banter her sometimes in a playful way. This will show that we are also sexual and sensual person. Dont overdo it, key is to do it occasionally. You are letting her know that you have found her attractive person with kool personality and tastes without hitting on her and with your eye contact, smile and subtle touching she will know that you are attracte to her.

IQ.

IP: 154.11.176.2

IQ

Don Juan
posted 05-17-2001 11:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for IQ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi,

I have to point out some other ways a woman can use your attention. She might me attracted to you but is unavailable, have a boyfriend, moving soon somewhere else, or you are not her type, these cases are most often waste of your time. Never take these cases seriously. Because, they are not gonna be serious with you.

Other classic women to avoid are high maintenance manipulating women, controlling women, feminists, women with low self-esteem,
on the rebound women, nerds, geeks, virgins (if any), too religious women, women who are boring or not your type and wackos who have psychological problems . Dont waste your time, money and energy on these women. They just dont worth it. These women are just suckers of your attention, money and energy. Some can become very jealous, possessive or obsessive. As soon as you find out their real type, get rid of them. My favourite lines are I am very busy with my life, or seeing other people and I will check my schedule and let you know and then never call them back or talk to them.

IQ.

IP: 206.172.121.30

DaneB

Don Juan
posted 05-21-2001 01:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DaneB     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
I think it is best to treat a chick, no matter how hot and steamy she is, no matter how cute and perfect, as a guy.

Isnt this a big mistake because you end up in the friend zone? If you want to date a chick, is this even a place you want to go? I've heard that when you're in the friendship zone, there is no return.

IP: 63.164.178.57


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