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Author Topic:   'Love' - and AFCs
Sir_Chancealot

Master Don Juan
posted 11-27-2001 10:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sir_Chancealot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Methinks Wyldfire is starting to show her true self

First, a quote. I wish I could properly attribut it, but I cannot.

Immature love (infatuation)= I love you because I NEED you.

Mature love = I need you because I LOVE you.


Yes, there is true love. No, it doesn't necessarily take all that much time, but it usually does.

Yes, women are heartless. Can you think of any phrase that is the male equivalent of "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned?"
That phrase was invented for a reason you know.

There are very few good women out there. They are damn rare. How do WOMEN try to control men? "Let me count the ways!" (I'm just a Shakespeare quoting MACHINE tonight )

Gentlemen, see how many of these apply to you when you have been in an LTR/marriage/lived together:

1) She will try to tell you what to wear.
2) When she moves in, she will immediately rearrange your furniture.
3) She throws out perfectly good items because SHE doesn't like them.
4) Everything is always about HER feelings
5) Try, JUST TRY and keep the toilet seat up.
6) Emotional manipulation abounds.
7) Thinks THEY should lead the household.

Here's some for the dating guys:

1) Will always want to listen to HER music on the radio
2) Always wants to pick the restaurant/movie/place. If she doesn't do this, then the next one will apply
3) When asked what she would like to do, responds with "I don't know. You decide." then b*tches about your decision
4) Tries to get you to spend less time with your friends.

Here's some for ALL women

1) B*tch B*tch B*tch, Nag Nag Nag, B*tch B*tch B*tch! All in the guise of "helping" you to be a "better person". Hmmm, seemed you were plenty good enough to get together in the first place.
2) Plays the "If you loved me..." routine

There are more, but I could go on all night, so I will end it there.

I think that Wyldfire is just an older, smarter version of MsThang.

Out of all the posts on here, how many can you recall where the guys said "This girl is great, she never lies, she treats me with respect" etc., etc., etc.?

I can think of ONE. One out of thousands. In another thread, I told you about 4 women who actually preferred "nice guys". Four.
So, I think it IS safe to "generalize" about women.

The younger guys on here don't need to hear this crap about "all women aren't the same" because, YES THEY ARE. Sure, there are a FEW rare exceptions, but as the saying goes, they prove the rule.

Listen, how do you think all of us got here? You think it was by some accident? All of us either 1) Got d*cked around by women or 2) Had our hearts stomped on.

Yes, men will tell women anything they want to hear to get laid. Guess what? It works. Guess what again? All woman have to do to not get played like that is to not give it up. Pretty simple, right? Guess who that little tactic is used by all the time? Jerks. Guess who doesn't use the tactic? Nice guys. Want to go for the trifecta and guess who gets laid more?

We have to learn all these "rules" (which, as you get older and more experienced, becomes "guidelines") to get to know women. Know why? Because women are conniving, heartless, greedy, thankless b*tches.

I could go on and on. Ok, all of those here who have had a woman draw out a breakup raise your hands. Now, why did the woman draw it out? There could be a couple of reasons. She will say she didn't want to "hurt him", when what she really meant was that she didn't want him to be mad at her. Or she will hang on because she doesn't want to be alone. What do those two examples have in common? It's all about what SHE wants and/or feels.

Can you please explain to me how a woman sacrificies in a relationship, because I'm pretty clueless right now. What sacrificies does SHE have to make? What's with the silence? Could it be because SHE DOESN'T? That's right. She doesn't.

Women run on their emotions. When men find this out, they find out how easy it is to manipulate them (the woman's feelings, that is). Which, by the way, is not something men are prone to do. They do it as a last resort, because nothing else has worked. Once he learns how to manipulate a woman's feelings, she is putty in his hands. Case in point....Wyldfire.

She thinks her Across-The-Country-Would-Be-Boyfriend is a DJ on this site. Well, guess what Ms. "All women aren't the same"? You KNOW he is using these tactics on you, AND THEY ARE STILL WORKING!

But you aren't like other women, are you? Nope, women aren't the same.

IP: 206.141.240.143

TheDude

Master Don Juan
posted 11-27-2001 11:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TheDude     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It has nothing to do with love or infatuation. It has to do with CO-DEPENDENCY. A man or woman who latches on to another person whether the feeling is reciprocated or not and sheds his/her own identity, thinks the other makes them "complete" is doing so out of a weak sense of self.

The gushy, constant need for affirmation from the other has nothing to do with what the person feels for the object of his/her attention. It's an indication of what he/she doesn't feel for themselves.

Love takes an acceptance of not only those qualities in another person that makes them feel "complete", but also those qualities that make them feel "apart". It's about learning how to be intimate for the sake of intimacy not for the sake of self-gratification, and how to be alone for the sake of solitude not for the sake of loneliness.

That's why I like this board. I don't look at this as tips and instruction on how to pick up women, I look at it as how to become more comfortable with myself. Gain confidence in myself, become more aware of myself. Those qualities that we had as AFC's were not only barriers to attracting women, but also barriers to really knowing ourselves.

TheDude

philosophically abiding...

IP: 24.4.255.89

Dr_Feelgood

Master Don Juan
posted 11-27-2001 11:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dr_Feelgood     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very insightful Sir_Chancealot. Sounds like we dated the same women. (Ha ha ha)
Even though, I've been saying the 2 women I'm interested in now, are different, in reality, they're probably not. I was starting to get infatuated and think that they were special. I was drifting back into AFC land. This post really opened my eyes. The only reason these girls are crazy about me, and I've been getting farther than I have in awhile, as far as relationships; is that I've become more of a Don Juan. (sorry about the long run on sentences)

In the past, I was a Don Juan, without even realizing it. Somehow, I lost my way for awhile. In the past, I must have done something right, because I had at least one LTR.

I agree with a lot of what you said though. There are very few women who truly like decent or "nice" guys. VERY FEW. And it's way too early in either of my relationships to know if these women are one of the few. Odds are that neither of them is. Eventually, I'll slip back into chump mode. She'll get bored, decide she's gotten what she wanted from me, and dump me. Almost every guy friend I have, is either divorced or getting divorced. In 90% of these cases, the guy wants the relationship to last. The wife either cheated, or decided she didn't want to be married anymore. I won't even mention some of the ludicrous reasons some of these women gave. It's a wonder I have any confidence to start a relationship at all. Women complain that men are commitment phobic. No wonder!

I read a retarded article in todays USA Today. It talked about how more women are wanting to date guys in uniform since Sept 11. (firemen, police, military) It talked about it like it was a fad to date these men. That women were only wanting to date them, because it was a new, trendy thing to do. One women's friends told her, after she was dating one of these guys for a month; that she couldn't break up with him yet, because they hadn't met him. How fickle are women these days? That's just sick!

I agree with Doc Love. 90% of the time she ends it. Women will say they want a great relationship with a guy, and they want it to last. Then why are they always ending it? A lot of times they end it without even giving a guy a fair chance. They don't even know the guy, and they dump him. I think it's really hard to take a womans' side on this matter. I'm not just saying that because I'm a man. The facts speak for themselves. The whole system is screwed up and doesn't give most guys a fighting chance from the start. That's why we have this site. I'm trying to fight it, but I'm becoming more and more of a jerk, the more I think about all of this.

IP: 4.54.48.77

sosuave.com

Administrator
posted 11-27-2001 11:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sosuave.com     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tips forum.

IP: 24.25.68.217

gettingthere

Master Don Juan
posted 11-27-2001 11:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gettingthere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dr_Feelgood:
I read a retarded article in todays USA Today. It talked about how more women are wanting to date guys in uniform since Sept 11. (firemen, police, military) It talked about it like it was a fad to date these men.

For what it's worth, most middle class Americans love to fantasize and romanticize about the 'simple life' of the working class. They are oddities we like to look at and marvel at from time to time, but we don't actually want to be like them or actually live with them. How many of those 'heros' can anyone name? probably less than 1.

[This message has been edited by gettingthere (edited 11-28-2001).]

IP: 24.252.67.182

Wyldfire

Master Don Juan
posted 11-28-2001 12:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wyldfire     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Chance, the guy I think may be here doesn't use these tactics on me. He calls less frequently because of a screwy situation, not because of any "rule". This guy respects me and knows full well that I will always be there for him no matter what and that he doesn't have to play foolish games to get that from me.

It's not the guy's actions towards me that leads me to believe he is here.

It's your right to think that all women are the same (except for YOUR relatives and closet friends, ironically). I still think you are bitter, too.

IP: 205.240.80.226

Wyldfire

Master Don Juan
posted 11-28-2001 12:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wyldfire     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Chance, the guy I think may be here doesn't use these tactics on me. He calls less frequently because of a screwy situation, not because of any "rule". This guy respects me and knows full well that I will always be there for him no matter what and that he doesn't have to play foolish games to get that from me.

It's not the guy's actions towards me that leads me to believe he is here.

It's your right to think that all women are the same (except for YOUR relatives and closet friends, ironically). I still think you are bitter, too.

IP: 205.240.80.226

Jake Steed

Master Don Juan
posted 11-28-2001 03:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jake Steed     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maybe Chance is bitter. Maybe not.

But if he gets laid more and played less by following "rules" based on generalizations of women, then why the hell would he NOT follow those rules?

The result is all that matters. 99% of DJ tactics work. 0% of nice-guy tactics work. You can't argue with REALITY.

Jake

IP: 208.244.233.99

Don Phenom

Master Don Juan
posted 11-28-2001 04:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Don Phenom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
WildThing, you've got something here

HOWEVER, one thing you have to learn if you want to be a True Don, is that all women ARE unique. What you posted will help AFCs become jerks, but it won't help them become Dons. And believe me man. A True Don will ALWAYS be able to get a girl who's attached to a Jerk, with almost no effort.

AFCs see women as:

special idividuals that need to be worshipped.

That right there, is some good bull s**t. NO WOMAN should be worshipped, but all should be respected.

As a Don, you'll see women are ALOT simpler than a AFC thinks. But going the route WildThing is suggesting will NOT help you understand women.

LISTEN UP GUYS- Believe me, you will get some girls using that advice, but if you find any that are really worth your time. When she catches a Dons eye, poof, with hesitation she's gone. THEN WHAT, your ass is back in the same stupid ass position you're in RIGHT NOW.

SO take the advice with a grain of salt. because what it will make you is not who or what you want to be. Especially if you're in the presents of a true Don, because believe me, You WILL Lose.

Finito

------------------
Don Phenom-Unphasable, you couldn't make me lose my cool if you set me on fire. My motto is simply "I will not lose."

[This message has been edited by Don Phenom (edited 11-28-2001).]

IP: 63.25.170.249

Wyldfire

Master Don Juan
posted 11-28-2001 09:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wyldfire     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jake Steed:
Maybe Chance is bitter. Maybe not.

But if he gets laid more and played less by following "rules" based on generalizations of women, then why the hell would he NOT follow those rules?

The result is all that matters. 99% of DJ tactics work. 0% of nice-guy tactics work. You can't argue with REALITY.

Jake


I couldn't care less what "rules" anyone plays by. The issue I have with what Chance is saying is that he thinks he knows more about who I am and what my relationships have been like than I do. And frankly, in that regard, he doesn't know his @ss from his elbow.

IP: 205.240.80.241

lordclem*

Master Don Juan
posted 11-28-2001 05:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lordclem*     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wyldfire:
Chance, the guy I think may be here doesn't use these tactics on me. He calls less frequently because of a screwy situation, not because of any "rule". This guy respects me and knows full well that I will always be there for him no matter what and that he doesn't have to play foolish games to get that from me.

mmmmmm wildthang and sir chance. posts are very insightful.but (deagleclaw puts a gun to my head) wyldfire has a point.
no i have not gone mad. now most women are ****ed up yes i totaly agree.giving newbies wildthangs post totaly agree.has a dj he will meet at least one woman that will stand out and show him that well that they are all not hoes!!
the self inprovement side of djing should help here too.it may be hard to leave to take in,but i am sure he well get it.and till he finds one of those good women,the others will make due(ie the best he can find)
this stands by what jake stead said.

"He calls less frequently because of a screwy situation, not because of any "rule"

oh i would say i told you so but i am sure you really would like to say so,but your pride wont let you.

"That right there, is some good bull s**t. NO WOMAN should be worshipped, but all should be respected."
don
"till she gives you reason to stop"

maybe if wildthang said that the current social state make women think that they can get away with ****ed up behavir and hoe activity endless and more that ever.many of them will do this some we have to treat them all the same till given reason to think/know that she is not.then move from there adding that most women will hoe up.
LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU GUYS THINK ABOUT THAT (wyldfire i am waiting)

wyldfire you said "knows full well that I will always be there for him no matter what and that he does not have to play FOOLISH games to get that"
how to you show him that.and please dont insult us by saying you told him(i would just want to kick you if you said that).what do you do.
---------------------------------------------
i really should take you up on calling ours stuff "foolish".but i want you to focus on the other thing i said
the devil

IP: 213.122.159.251

Wyldfire

Master Don Juan
posted 11-28-2001 05:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wyldfire     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Okay clem, I'll do my best to answer your questions.

Firstly...the guy IS in a FUBAR situation right now that severely limits our ability to converse on the phone. I hate it and am pissed off about it because he is being a "Chump" in this situation. He knows that, I have told him that but he can't seem to extract himself from the mess.

For the record...I am a damn good woman who is both easy on the eyes and very easy to get along with. I don't play stupid @ss games. If you have read the Power of Feminine Grace article...I'm about as close to that as a woman can get. I can tell you right now that I wouldn't give men like Wildthang the time of day. He is obviously a bitter jerk with more resentments and emotional baggage than I want any part of. So frankly...men with that attitude are not going to even get close enough to the kind of woman they are looking for because they have such a miserable piss-poor attitude that they will only attract f*cked up women. I'm sure plenty will disagree with me, seeing as I have tits and all, but the fact is...I am right and those wiser fellas KNOW this. Why do you think they keep telling newbies not to try to become a jerk? They aren't just blowing air out of their arseholes, afterall.

I know there was a 3rd question, but for the life of me I can't recall what it was...so you will get that last answer in another post.

IP: 205.240.80.153

Wyldfire

Master Don Juan
posted 11-28-2001 05:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wyldfire     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How does he "know full well" I'll be there for him? Simple...I consistently HAVE been for at least the last 18 months. Sure I have told him that, but before I ever told him I was walking that walk already.

IP: 205.240.80.153

WildThang

Master Don Juan
posted 11-28-2001 08:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WildThang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wyldfire:
I can tell you right now that I wouldn't give men like Wildthang the time of day.

You have *no idea* how funny this is. Really and truly - you can't even begin to guess.

IP: 172.189.100.2

Wyldfire

Master Don Juan
posted 11-28-2001 09:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wyldfire     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by WildThang:
You have *no idea* how funny this is. Really and truly - you can't even begin to guess.


Why do you find it so funny? If ANY man were as blatantly disrespectful to me as you have been on this forum I would be repulsed by him. For all I know you could behave entirely differently to people under different circumstances, but I'm going on what I see right here. And you are being a total @ss.

IP: 205.240.80.247

Lorenzo

Master Don Juan
posted 11-28-2001 09:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lorenzo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
... wyldthing, quit while your not behind by that much...

WildThing, good post...

And I for 1 would like to bring something to the women of this forums attension:

We, or at leased I, am not as I post on the forum... a hard ass MOTHER-FVCKER + mean son of a *****... I am COMPLETELY different in real life, and I assume most guys here are different as well...

And when you say you woulding give <so-and-so> the time of day... you really don't know, maybe this so called ass hole is the suavest, most devonaar man you will ever meet, and you like sertain qualities about him he has not shown on the forum???

------------------
Master Don Juan
Anthony (Lorenzo)
AIM: EnzoOOI
E-mail: Monsterous_popo@greatestgamers.com

The DJ Bible ~or~ The High School Don Juan Bible

“I can imagine, that right now you are feeling a bit like Alice, tumbling down the rabbit hole?…… Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain. But you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there is something wrong with the world. You don’t know what it is. But its there, like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad. It is this feeling that has brought you to me.…… Unfortunately no one can be, told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself.…… You take the red pill, you stay in wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes” - Laurence Fishburne

IP: 24.49.85.154

WildThang

Master Don Juan
posted 11-28-2001 09:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WildThang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sir_Chancealot:
I could go on and on. Ok, all of those here who have had a woman draw out a breakup raise your hands. Now, why did the woman draw it out? There could be a couple of reasons. She will say she didn't want to "hurt him", when what she really meant was that she didn't want him to be mad at her. Or she will hang on because she doesn't want to be alone. What do those two examples have in common? It's all about what SHE wants and/or feels.

And once you see through that game, the rest is easy. Finally we realise that women are not nice, sweet, adorable creatures just because they're female and pretty. A lot of them actually *are* self-centred, self-obsessed and controlling *to the extent that they can be completely blind to a guy's feelings.*

These women just *do not see* what the outcome of their actions is. They will sleep with some other guy then come crying to you looking for sympathy, expecting you to make it better, and not get at all why you might not, for some reason, be 110% immediately willing to do that.

And what are the chances that a chick who does this will ever say 'Yes, it was *all* my fault' instead of 'You jerk - I only did this because of *you*?

Are all like this? Thankfully, no. There are some real sweeties out there.

But a scary number are like this. Worse still, they have this schizophrenic view of themselves where they absolutely don't see what they're doing, or it even occurs to them that there might be something mad or bad about it.

Worse still again *guys are expected to be blind to this.* How many newbie posts on here give the women involved the benefit of the doubt by default? And the guy is wondering what *he* is doing wrong?

Looking honestly at what's happening is something guys are just not supposed to do. We're told over and over that women are 'better at relationships' than we are, and eventually we start to believe it, no matter how crap that line is.

So here's a tip - *being female does not make someone any better at empathy than you are.* A woman may go all gooshy over little fluffy animals and still be completely unable to understand that you have feelings that can be hurt by her actions. It's not pretty, it's not nice, but it *is* the way it is out there.

This means that if you find you ever want to go beyond the sex stage and give your heart to a chick, you *have* to check out whether she is like this or not. Otherwise you'll be paying big time later. And you do *not* want to be there when the brown stuff hits the spinning metal thing.

To get back to post 1 - the only thing that was meant as poetic license, and which I should clarify as such, was the idea that women somehow sat down and planned 'love' so it would drive guys mad. Sadly, love (of this sort, anyway) turns women into drooling idiots just as much as it turns men. So yes, blaming them for the whole deal might indeed be just a leetle bit harsh.

Other than that, what was the post for? Here are some of the secret, evil assumptions that I was trying to call out:

The belief in scarcity

The belief that 'love' in the AFC sense will buy you a worthwhile relationship

The belief that if you love someone you can ignore how they actually act towards you

The belief that if you love someone and act in a loving way, that's all you need to worry about for a guaranteed happy ending

The stupid, *stupid* process of committing to exclusivity (at least in your own head) with someone you haven't even dated yet

The belief that any one woman is so unique that she is 'the one', and is therefore allowed to short-circuit all your higher brain functions and make you look stupid (or worse), if she so chooses

The belief that you should choose a woman based on how you feel about her, and whether or not she condescends to spend time with you because of those feelings, instead of choosing her for how she feels and acts towards you, and how *good you feel* (or not) when she's around

The AFC belief that women are angels who can absolutely be relied on to be nice, mature, honest, straightforward and to know more about relationships than you ever could *just because they're female*, and that you should always, absolutely, trust everything they say, because (hey...) don't you see it's for your own good?

The AFC belief that 'the one' is 'THE ONE' - and there will never be another who even comes close to comparing, and therefore much pain and anguish is due when she leaves

As for uniqueness - are women unique? Yes and no. You'll always mesh with some better than others. And some will hit your heart with the force of a Mack truck.

Guess what? In the long run, that guarantees nothing. You still need to keep checking out what she's doing, whether she's respecting you, whether she's lying to you over things big and small, how sorted her own life is, where she is with her exes. And all of that.

What women do want is to *believe* they're unique - at least to you. Women *hate* the idea that they're predictable, or simple, or easy to see through. It's ultimate chick heresy to say that to them (and a wise DJ would never say that to a woman's face. Along with 'Yes dear, actually you do look rather fat in that.' ) ) They would rather tear your head off with a chainsaw than admit that it could ever, in a million years, be even slightly true.

But in fact the ultimate, single, predictable chick fantasy is to be pursued relentlessly by a high status quality guy who could have any chick he wants, but who wants *her* because of her seductiveness, intelligence, allure, feminine grace, or whatever qualities she feels make her stand out. So if you're high status enough (or can act high status enough) to get her attention, and can make a chick feel 'special' like that, she's yours.

Complicated? Not really.

As for love... yes, people can and do hit it off. Sometimes they go all effortlessly gooshy on each other and it's every bit as nice and sweet as everyone says. Sometimes it even lasts. Occasionally it'll last a lifetime.

But is an AFC *at all* likely to have an experience like that while he's pining over some chick who has just LJBF'd him? While all his emotional energy is invested in her, instead of being out there looking for someone that makes him happy without demanding that he go through this?

*That* is what the post was about. If you are wasting energy in pointless fantasising and drama on a chick, even if you feel she is 'the one' and you are 'in love' with her, even if you've gone beyond chumphood to a place where the sex is great, if she's sapping your energy, you're still being more stupid than a very stupid person from a tribe of stupids in CapitalStupid somewhere in the Stupid Solar System, in a Stupid Galaxy far far far away. (Have I made my point here? )

The truth - the unarguable, simple truth - is that somewhere out there is at least one, and very possibly a whole lot more, chicks with whom things will work out a whole lot more smoothly for you.

An AFC doesn't believe they exist. And even if they do, he doesn't believe he has what it takes to find them. As long as he believes that, he is exactly 100% right. He doesn't do ask outs, he lacks the basic skills, his choices are zero. Which is why he's average, frustrated, and a chump.

And what's more, a whole load of of women will line up to tell him over and over - exactly as Wyldfire has tried to do here - that this is how it is, and this what he *should* believe, and he should never change his mind, because if he exercises his male powers of discrimination and exploration and self-control at all, he's suddenly a cynical, bitter, woman hater. (Or something equally black and wicked and shameful and nasty, scratch, miaow, scratch, miaow.)

But... a DJ knows he can find them. So he does. He learns the skills, he puts himself on the line, he does the job.

And then - everyone is happy. (Including, as it happens, the lucky chick herself.)

IP: 172.188.167.84

WildThang

Master Don Juan
posted 11-28-2001 09:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WildThang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Dude wrote:
quote:

That's why I like this board. I don't look at this as tips and instruction on how to pick up women, I look at it as how to become more comfortable with myself. Gain confidence in myself, become more aware of myself. Those qualities that we had as AFC's were not only barriers to attracting women, but also barriers to really knowing ourselves.


Yes, indeed. In the end this is not about 'women' at all. This is about finding our self respect, standing our own ground and not taking crap from anyone, whether it's a psyco-chick, an evil boss, or even all the stuff that rattles around inside our heads.

You can play the same game at work. The work equivalent of an AFC *really believes* that if he is loyal to the company, the company will be loyal to him. Then he can't quite work out what hit him when he's downsized without a word.

In the end it's about taking power for yourself from all the people and things who would take it from you.

[This message has been edited by WildThang (edited 11-28-2001).]

[This message has been edited by WildThang (edited 11-28-2001).]

IP: 172.188.167.84

CHALENGE GUY

Master Don Juan
posted 11-28-2001 10:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for CHALENGE GUY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
He has risen. The Savior is here.

Enlightening post.

------------------
Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.

- Roosevelt

Heretics shall perish. Please read the Bible. It is is a whole vast world of wisdom, beauty, and moral truth.

THE DJ BIBLE

IP: 24.200.138.90

Wyldfire

Master Don Juan
posted 11-28-2001 10:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wyldfire     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lorenzo...I'm talking about his behavior on this forum towards me. That's what I'm basing my opinion on. Now, I have sat back and been rather tolerant of his bullsh*t for quite awhile now. Rather than challenge the sentiments I post he just insults me, and it's getting quite old. If he has any redeeming qualities, he sure as hell doesn't show them on here...but that's my opinion.

IP: 205.240.80.247

Wyldfire

Master Don Juan
posted 11-28-2001 10:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wyldfire     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wildthang...how about you go find exactly where I called you a womanhater. Actually, don't waste your time because I never said it. Apparently someone else has said that to you at some point and you are again assuming sh*t.

While you're at it...find those posts where I tell ANYONE that they have to put up with crap from women or anyone. Again, you can't do that because I have NEVER said any such thing.

I can tell you hate Feminism, but I doubt you hate it any more than I do. I could go on for days and days about how the women's movement has totally f*cked up society beyond recognition. Men get screwed over in the legal system, workplace and the media paints men out to be violent woman beating rapists who are number than a pounded thumb. I despise that crap. Wanna know why? First off, it's not fair to men to have to put up with being treated like lowlife scum. Secondly...men such as yourself figure out what's really going on because of feminism, see tits on someone and are so goddamned defensive and suspicious that you see things that aren'd even f*cking there. I'm quite sick of having people like you assume that I am like the majority of women who think they are entitled to more than men without doing a damn thing to earn or deserve it. I do expect respect and common courtesy from others, and they get the same from me. However, if you are going to be an @ss to me, you'd best be prepared to get a heavy dose of the same treatment in return. You get what you give with me. Now, I would strongly suggest that you dig your head out of your @ss and actually READ my posts and take them at face value rather than looking for some nonexistant hidden sabotage against men, cuz it just isn't there. I say you are behaving like a fembot because they will look for hidden sexism and bigotry until they find something they can twist around to appear to be some kind of bias. And THAT, Wildthang, is the EXACT same thing you are doing with my posts. Kindly knock it off. Should you choose to stop doing that I will stop being a biotch to you. Like I said, you get what you give.

IP: 205.240.80.247

Sir_Chancealot

Master Don Juan
posted 11-28-2001 11:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sir_Chancealot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wyldfire:
Chance, the guy I think may be here doesn't use these tactics on me. He calls less frequently because of a screwy situation, not because of any "rule". This guy respects me and knows full well that I will always be there for him no matter what and that he doesn't have to play foolish games to get that from me.

It's not the guy's actions towards me that leads me to believe he is here.

It's your right to think that all women are the same (except for YOUR relatives and closet friends, ironically). I still think you are bitter, too.


Screwy situation? You mean he's married, don't you?

First, you need to look up the definition of ironic. It would be "ironic" if they were all chicks that I had given them the boot because they were "too nice". The two nieces (out of about 40 or so nieces and nephews, not counting GREAT nieces and nephews) happen to be in their very early 20s. Why do you think I put the addendum to my post? And by the way, what am I suppossed to do, comment about total f*cking strangers?!? More chick logic for you gentleman.

Bitter? No, not bitter. I have learned (actually, it would be closer to say "am learning") to look at life AS IT IS, not AS ONE WISHES IT WERE.

I hold women to the same standards to which I hold myself. I *KNOW* what I have to offer to a woman, and I will not accept a woman who is below my standards. I think it just galls you that there are men in this world who think (and rightfully so) that they are better than MOST of the women out there. Why would I want to kiss a woman who has had 20 other d*cks in her mouth? Why would I want a woman who has played out all of her fun, carefree, hot-body years on jerks, and now wants to have a man around the house to raise the kids? I don't think so.

I broke two of my cardinal rules when I got together with my wife. Hence, I speak from experience when I tell men to NEVER lower their standards.

Want to know why I married her? I got her pregnant. You think when I advise guys not to have sex, it's from some moral highground? Not likely. It's because I KNOW FIRSTHAND the ramifications of things like that.

EVERYONE advised me not to marry her. Know why I did anyway? BECAUSE MY CHILD NEEDED A MOTHER AND A FATHER. And not just a father, a father who loved his mother. (If you weren't raised in a family like this, you will have no idea of that which I speak). So, I *CHOSE* to love her, despite my misgivings. Oh how easy it would have been to just walk away and pay child support. So, when I say I am a REAL MAN, you can bet your @ss that I am exactly what I say. I've always been a DJ at heart, I just let myself be brainwashed into AFC mode when I was younger. No more.

Things would have turned out the same, but probably much sooner if we had not gotten together.

I have learned, in a very experiential way, not to throw away what I have to offer on women who WILL NOT appreciate it. By and large, most women AREN'T appreciative of what their man has to offer in their lives.

I lowered my standards, and payed a living hell for it. I would like to see my fellow, albeit younger, DJs avoid the mistakes that I have made if at all possible.

You show me a good woman, and I'd take her in a second. They are VERY rare, and are almost always spoken for. [/sarcasm on] Now, I wonder why that is? [/end sarcasm]
I don't care if a guy is an total AFC chump, or the meanest jerk around, he KNOWS a good woman when he meets one. He may blow the opportunity for whatever reason, but he KNOWS.

You come one here, and try to tell these younger guys that "not all women are like that", but guess what? The vast majority of them are.

RIDDLE ME THIS BATMAN..... If MOST women weren't like this, why are guys flocking to this site in droves? Guess what else? Women have ALWAYS respected me. Guess why I didn't get much play? Because I didn't play their little bullsh*t games. Because I didn't do things THEIR way.

I once thought as you do, that you DON'T have to play games to get together with a woman. AHAHAHAAHAAA! Man, what a clueless f*ck I was! That was because when I was younger, the mature men and women, and their relationships were based in reality, not in the bullsh*t that 99% of women THINK is reality today.

I don't claim to know "all about your relationships", but I know enough to call you on your bullsh*t. You think you aren't like other women, and I gave several very concrete examples of why you ARE just like other women. I will do so again.

You stated "Firstly...the guy IS in a FUBAR situation right now that severely limits our ability to converse on the phone. I hate it and am pissed off about it because he is being a "Chump" in this situation."

Translated for the men here: He isn't doing what *I* want him to do. How come MY FEELINGS aren't more important to him?

You stated: "For the record...I am a damn good woman..."

Translated: But, I will neglect to mention that I made a kid, but never married his/her dad. It's irrelevant anyway, because *I* think I am a good woman.

You stated "I can tell you right now that I wouldn't give men like Wildthang the time of day."

Translated: Except for my first husband. And my fiance. And the guy across the country.

You stated "...is obviously a bitter jerk with more resentments and emotional baggage than I want any part of..."

Translated: He makes me sooooo mad. But at least he makes me feel SOMETHING. I think *GASP* he's a REAL MAN! Oh, now my panties are wet!

NAH! Just kidding on that last one! It IS pretty funny though.

You stated: "men with that attitude are not going to even get close enough to the kind of woman they are looking for because they have such a miserable piss-poor attitude that they will only attract f*cked up women."

Translated: I'm pissed that these guys have figured out how to manipulate women. I'm even MORE pissed that they are getting more successful at it.

You stated: "I'm sure plenty will disagree with me, seeing as I have tits and all..."

Translated: Nope, no feminist here.

You continued: "...but the fact is...I am right and those wiser fellas KNOW this."

[editor's (that would be me!) note: No, the "wiser fellas" know that you are WRONG in this.]

Translated: Why can't all men just go back to being the good little AFC?

You stated: "Why do you think they keep telling newbies not to try to become a jerk? They aren't just blowing air out of their arseholes, afterall."

Translated: I think I just won't remind all the DJs that the more experienced DJs want the less experienced ones to get more p*ssy than the jerk, but have a chance at catching a good woman too.

You stated: How does he 'know full well' I'll be there for him? Simple...I consistently HAVE been for at least the last 18 months. "

Translated: I have waited on him for a year and a half, so he HAS to know that I'll be there for him. Even though we've barely even been together....even though he can barely call me....even though we barely communicate. I KNOW all this because I am a woman.


Wyldfire, you seem to be a nice person, and you seem to be pretty intelligent, but for all that, you still don't get it. Women today ARE JUST LIKE I HAVE BEEN DESCRIBING. You either cannot or will not admit it.

I am using biting sarcasm, humor, and truthfullness in my "translations" so that the younger DJs will SEE that, for all Wyldfire's protestations, she is NOT that far from the women of which we speak.

Wyldfire, I am beginning to think that you aren't on here to "help guys out" and "give a woman's perspective". I am starting to think that you are on here to find out who your "man" is, and keep tabs on him.
But, nah.... it's probably just me being bitter and all.

What do the older DJs think?

IP: 206.141.244.199

Sir_Chancealot

Master Don Juan
posted 11-28-2001 11:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sir_Chancealot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by WildThang:
...You can play the same game at work. The work equivalent of an AFC *really believes* that if he is loyal to the company, the company will be loyal to him. Then he can't quite work out what hit him when he's downsized without a word. ...

OMG! People still believe that?!?

Actually, now that I think about it, there is this one guy I work with that thinks the same thing. He'll find out. Hopefully later rather than sooner.

IP: 206.141.244.199

Wyldfire

Master Don Juan
posted 11-29-2001 10:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wyldfire     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"You mean he's married, don't you?"

This is EXACTLY where you are out of line. You keep making stupid assumptions that have absolutely no factual basis.

No, he is NOT married. He lives in a large house with several roommates, one of which is a mentally unstable woman. He has become emotional hostage to her threats of suicide in an attempt to "win" his love and sympathy.
I have told him her mental health is NOT his responsibility or problem and that he needs to take care of himself and not let this nutcase haul him down into the pits of despair with her. He is being manipulated into giving her attention. Since they live in the same house, and she is right up his ass it's difficult for him and I to communicate. She gets jealous if he calls me or I call him.

"I think it just galls you that there are men in this world who think (and rightfully so) that they are better than MOST of the women out there."

Is that what I said, Chance? I don't recall saying that at all. I happen to like men in general more than I like women. Don't you think there's a reason for that? Most women are too biotchy and catty for my liking. If I don't have much tolerance for that crap it stands to reason that I don't have those qualities myself.

Um...what makes you think a quality woman wants to put her mouth on a schlong that's been up 20+ women? Works two ways, Chance.


"I have learned, in a very experiential way, not to throw away what I have to offer on women who WILL NOT appreciate it."

Did I tell you to do that? Nope.

"You show me a good woman, and I'd take her in a second. They are VERY rare, and are almost always spoken for."

Yep, good women ARE rare. A lot are spoken for, that's true. Not all are. Good women are secure enough in themselves and are happy enough to not "NEED" a man, so they aren't out drinking at clubs all the time or hitting the singles scene. They are too busy doing more productive things. They're there, but not where most guys go looking.

"I don't care if a guy is an total AFC chump, or the meanest jerk around, he KNOWS a good woman when he meets one."

Exactly...they do know one when they meet one. Every man since the one in prison who has ever known me well has told me that I am that exact kind of woman. That's why I say that I am with confidence, because I KNOW it is true.

"You come one here, and try to tell these younger guys that "not all women are like that", but guess what? The vast majority of them are."

I never said that most aren't that way. In fact, I have frequently said that MOST women are biotches. Most isn't all, though. C'mon Chance...give these guys some damn hope that there are still some good women out there because there ARE.

"You stated "Firstly...the guy IS in a FUBAR situation right now that severely limits our ability to converse on the phone. I hate it and am pissed off about it because he is being a "Chump" in this situation."

Translated for the men here: He isn't doing what *I* want him to do. How come MY FEELINGS aren't more important to him?"


That has NOTHING to do with my feelings at all. I am angry because he is being taken advantage of, emotionally terrorized and is being made to carry guilt that isn't his own. My concern is about what is best for HIM, and allowing himself to be treated this way is BAD FOR HIM! Love is NOT selfish, Chance, at least it isn't when it comes from me.

"You stated: "For the record...I am a damn good woman..."

Translated: But, I will neglect to mention that I made a kid, but never married his/her dad. It's irrelevant anyway, because *I* think I am a good woman."

Strike me down with a bolt of lightning for doing the responsible thing after becoming pregnant from my ONLY one nighter I ever had. I used protection and it failed. Just how does that change what kind of woman I am for the worse? Would murdering my own unborn child for convenience purposes make me a better person?

"You stated "I can tell you right now that I wouldn't give men like Wildthang the time of day."

Translated: Except for my first husband. And my fiance. And the guy across the country."

Chance...I would NEVER be with a man who disrespected me after learning from my marriage. The fiance' NEVER disrespected me even once..NEVER. The guy across the country has more respect for me than he does damn near anyone else he knows. Again, you are so far off base it's not even funny.


"You stated: "men with that attitude are not going to even get close enough to the kind of woman they are looking for because they have such a miserable piss-poor attitude that they will only attract f*cked up women."

Translated: I'm pissed that these guys have figured out how to manipulate women. I'm even MORE pissed that they are getting more successful at it."

No, I'm not in the least bit pissed that men are playing games. Women play them too. It's not the "games" I'm talking about Chance. It's the "jerk" attitude. Jerks (of either sex) only attract other jerks. Someone with their head on straight isn't going to waste their time with someone who disrespects them and behaves like an @ss, and their gender has nothing to do with it.

"You stated: "I'm sure plenty will disagree with me, seeing as I have tits and all..."

Translated: Nope, no feminist here."

Chance...don't EVER refer to me as a Feminist. I despise Feminism. Some men have specifically slammed my posts on the mere basis that I am a woman and that my advice is crap for ONLY that reason. It has been very clear and not something I looked for. It has been quite blatant. I should refer you to that group of men's rights fellas I know. They would tell you that you're full of sh*t on that call....even self declared radical misogynists have the utmost respect for me. But then they've seen me debate with feminazis and chase them off with their tail between their legs.

"Wyldfire, you seem to be a nice person, and you seem to be pretty intelligent, but for all that, you still don't get it. Women today ARE JUST LIKE I HAVE BEEN DESCRIBING. You either cannot or will not admit it."

Chance...how many times do I have to say that MOST women are miserable biotches before you actually hear it? Again I shall say that MOST is NOT all. I wouldn't say a word if you (and others) used the term "most" when you make those kinds of statements. But if you just say "women are" then I will speak up because it's false and misleading to the young and impressionable guys on here.

"I am using biting sarcasm, humor, and truthfullness in my "translations" so that the younger DJs will SEE that, for all Wyldfire's protestations, she is NOT that far from the women of which we speak."

Oh but Chance...you are basing that sarcasm and humor on pure speculation and assumptions, which, by the way, are NOT truthful...they are your opinion, NOT fact, and most of the time, you have been wrong.

"Wyldfire, I am beginning to think that you aren't on here to "help guys out" and "give a woman's perspective". I am starting to think that you are on here to find out who your "man" is, and keep tabs on him.
But, nah.... it's probably just me being bitter and all."

Wrong again. Why am I not surprised? I found this site purely by accident by clicking on a link posted at another forum I read sometimes by the ID DJFOO-D or something to that effect. I only think the guy is probably on here because while we were discussing his FUBAR situation he said "I know this isn't the DJ thing to do, but...". So yeah, if he's here I'm curious which ID he is, but keep "tabs" on him? That's pretty funny considering the level of openness and honesty in our friendship, not to mention the circumstances under which we met in the first place. There isn't much this guy wouldn't say to or in front of me, whether about me or not.


[This message has been edited by Wyldfire (edited 11-29-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Wyldfire (edited 11-29-2001).]

IP: 205.240.80.175

Wyldfire

Master Don Juan
posted 11-29-2001 10:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wyldfire     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
oops double post

[This message has been edited by Wyldfire (edited 11-29-2001).]

IP: 205.240.80.175


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